One of the most popular training aids in the martial arts is a wooden dummy. And while some might think that it is exclusive to Wing Chun, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, from everything I have read about it, Wing Chun is one of the last arts “to” incorporate a dummy in its training.
The difference lies in how it is used, which therefore changes how it looks.
For example, wooden dummies come in all shapes and sizes. From being sunk into the ground (“dead” dummy) to wall-mounted (“live” dummy), you will even see cheap versions that are made of PVC and/or suspended on bungee cords between a door frame.
Note: PVC trunks are good but you need wooden arms and legs to be useful. And bungee cord dummies? Forget about it. They are a waste of money.
If you look at arts such as Hung Gar and Choi Lay Fut, check out their dummies. The trunks are usually the same but the arms are radically different. You might also find a five, six, or even seven arms, as well as a few legs. This is for training their particular methods and from multiple angles.
Wing Chun takes the same premise but reduces it to fit our needs. This is why there are only three arms and one leg, and also why the arms are much shorter than other arts’ dummy arms. It is also why the arms are angled more inward than other arts, because our training requires our arms to be more protective of the centerline.
But do you have to wait until you are at the formal dummy curriculum in order to train with it? Not at all. You “can” utilize this stand-in partner right now and for any type of Wing Chun training you desire (minus ground fighting, of course).
For example, the lead and rear-arm defense drills are excellent to train on the dummy, as are chain-punches (with a pad in place), stepping, and leg jamming. Elbows and knees are good to train on it, too (with pads in place) since there is no movement. You either do it correctly and absorb the rebound or it drives you backwards.
That is one of the great things about dummy training: If you listen to what it tells you, you will be able to correct any and all areas of your Wing Chun.
montyhendrix
July 2, 2008 at 2:28 AM
I’ve got to get one of these.
Question, though, can one of those PVC dummies, support a wooden leg and arms? I kind of doubt it but would be curious if anyone has experience with this.
awca
July 2, 2008 at 2:56 AM
Hi Monty,
The PVC “trunk” can support a wooden leg and arms, yes. In fact, I had a PVC trunk with wooden arms and a steel leg for about 3 years. I ended up giving it to one of my students when I got a new wooden trunk.
Now, that is only for the trunk, mind you, and provided that it is at least 8-inches in diameter. None of that thin, smaller diameter stuff because it probably “will” collapse over time.
But the big thing is to never use PVC arms or legs. The trunk itself can handle repeated and continuous use for years, but with even a slight impact to a PVC arm or leg? It will break on the first slap.
The sad part is that someone will drop a couple hundred dollars on a full PVC dummy and then realize their mistake too late. They could have used that money for a more suitable dummy, one that is devoid of the marketing hype.
But long story short? Yes, a PVC trunk “will” withstand probably as much abuse as you can give it. I beat mine repeatedly over 3 years (including weapons on it) and it is still going strong.
Phil
bard
August 13, 2008 at 6:37 PM
i found this DIY PVC dummy pictures at http://www.geocities.com/pvcdummy But no instruction given.
awca
August 13, 2008 at 7:44 PM
Hi Bard,
To be honest, I would steer clear of dummies such as this. The only thing they are good for is to learn the actions vs. air training. Working the dummy form in the air is actually trained in a variety of lineages, and while that might seem contrary to the purpose of the dummy, it “does” have a viable use. I personally do not prefer it and would rather train on the dummy itself, but it is still useful to some degree.
The reason that PVC dummies like you pointed to are useless is because they cannot hold up to any kind of strikes. Even a gentle shove will tip it over, bend or break an arm, etc., yet the purpose of the dummy is exactly opposite of that. It creates the structure as such so that you can drive through your opponent, and you cannot do that when training on a PVC dummy.
Now, for some dummies that “are” PVC and “are” good, the trunk is at least 8-inches in diameter and is the kind used for drainage. Those are good substitutes for wooden trunks. You will not get the weight you need, of course, but I have seen some where they cap the ends and fill the trunk with sand, cement, etc.
Even with good quality PVC trunks, I recommend still using wooden arms and leg (preferably a steel leg). The first whack given to a PVC arm will immediately throw your money away. Instead, stick with the good stuff because that is what works.
Many folks just simply do not have the money to invest in a good quality dummy, and instead opt for versions like you pointed out. At first it sounds like a viable alternative, but then someone spends their hard-earned money on it and during the first training session, it falls apart.
To be honest? Save your money and invest in the right dummy. Even for those in apartments and who cannot attach the dummy to a wall, there are portable stands to hold full wooden dummies. The dummy is an invaluable aid to furthering your Wing Chun, but only the “right” one. Don’t get swayed into spending money buying or constructing a PVC one, because you will end up throwing your money away.
Thanks for the link!
Phil
montyhendrix
August 31, 2008 at 3:03 AM
Here is a random question but somewhat on topic, Sifu.
Let’s say, I’m still training Wing Chun when I’m 90 and old and brittle. Would it be acceptable for that type of person or an extremely thin female to pad the arms and legs on a good dummy? Just curious.
Or is it better for that type of person to work the dummy “soft”
I’m thinking maybe both
Or is it better for them to just give up and move on to ball room dancing (I’m kidding here but actually not really)
Makes me also wonder if too thin ladies or older people want to work Tan Dar, coudl they were forearm pads or are they better to practice soft.
I’m thinking maybe both.
It really seems that anyone who is commited could learn W.C. and it makes more sense to me for older folks than Tai Chi – no offense to T.C. but W.C. seems more practical, has soft aspects but still very direct. HOWEVER, I could see them getting bruised easy in the training so I’m thinking the padding and softer trainng would be acceptable.
I mention this b/c I read in your article above of clashing vs. sidestepping where you mentioned practitioners should think about the “long term” aspect of their training.
As a teacher I would like to be able to teach W.C. to any adult particularly older adults and one motivation for me is to learn a martial art I can practice in its entirety for my entire life. I believe W.C. and escrima are those arts but again I could see an older person taking some bruising without training smart. JMO. And my O is very green in the W.C.
Thoughts?
montyhendrix
August 31, 2008 at 3:07 AM
Also good to know the PVC can support the arms and legs.
awca
September 3, 2008 at 4:59 PM
Hi Monty,
Good question. The purpose of the dummy has a lot of varying elements, and depending on “who” you ask, you will get a few varied answers.
As I have learned it, the dummy has one primary purpose, and that is to counter rebound (striking an opponent/ object and overcoming the force that it sends back into you). Now, with that, a lot of other elements are simultaneously trained, such as short-range striking power, uniting the upper and lower bodies, and also learning some new concepts for engaging an opponent at a very short range.
Some will say that the primary purpose is to “toughen” the arms, but this is a side effect. It happens, but that is not the primary goal of “why” we train it. Since the dummy does not move, yes, it would be quite acceptable to pad the arms in case there is a chance of injury. Nothing exists that says it would be wrong, but at the same time, it also depends on a practitioner’s age when they reached it to begin with.
For example, I put a practitioner on the dummy at a very early level, and teach them what it is about. They are not learning the actual curriculum; instead, they are learning to use the dummy for the concepts and movements “at” their current level.
Along the way, they are learning about rebound, they are conditioning their arms, they are learning to unite their upper and lower bodies so that it becomes one unit vs. a collection of parts, and they are also learning to use a stand-in training aid in place of a partner (when a partner is not available).
So for the AWCA, we actually engage the dummy much sooner than most other schools. That’s not to say that makes us better; rather, it allows us to understand the tools available to us and make the most of them at an earlier stage. In turn, this has seen an explosion of progression in our students that might not otherwise be seen sometimes for years.
In their later years, a practitioner’s arms “should” already be conditioned to handle the full force of the dummy, as evidenced by videos of Grandmaster Yip Man and others. While it looks soft, a closer inspection will see the dummy moving, and that does not happen unless you drive in with real force. And since he is not being pushed backwards, he clearly demonstrated his mastery of overcoming rebound.
But in the end, I would say it depends on the person. If they “are” susceptible to injuries due to age, padding the arms would not be a problem. They would still get just as much proper training as not padding them (and a lot fewer visits to the hospital).
Sifu
CHUCO
October 3, 2008 at 6:25 PM
I would like to make a dummy out of pvc pipes since it takes to long to make a wooden one and to buy a wooden one i couldnt afford to. I want to make a pvc dummy that is grounded so i can take it with me if i have to go somewhere how do i make the base that holds the pipe tube to the ground?????????????????
awca
October 12, 2008 at 8:10 AM
Good question, Chuco. I would recommend going to http://www.woodendummy.net and checking out their portable stands. That might be something you can replicate for what you are trying to do.
Let me know how it turns out, too. Others might be interested in seeing what you come up with.
Phil